Season 4 Kickoff

Now that we're close to the Season 4 kickoff I thought I'd post this topic reminding everyone of the league rules and some other important information.



_3 Strike Policy - Basically, if someone has the same complaint filed against them, in three separate games, by three different owners, they will be removed from the league.

_5 trade limit for a season - Week 9 Trade deadline.
In one season (off included) a team may only trade away a total of 8 players.

_On defense pre snap, players are not allowed to control and change the location of more than one player. This includes Kickoffs and Punt returns.

_Going for it on 4th down is allowed in any of the following situations
14. 4th and anything inside the opponents 40 yard line (must be losing or tied) at any time in the game.
15. 4th and anything at any time in the game if down by 21 points or more.
16. 4th and anything if in the 4th quarter and losing.
16-1 4th and anything in overtime if losing. If tied, the above rules are in effect.

_22. If you feel that you have been cheated in whatever way, please do not flame the opposing player on these boards. The correct method of dealing with him is to send a Private Message to the commissioner detailing what events occurred. If the commissioner finds it to be a valid complaint, then the opposing player will be notified that he has a strike against him. The strike will also be logged in the strike thread as a means of keeping track. If you can provide proof of the act by recording the highlight at the end of the game then please do so.

_23. Every owner in the USSML needs to treat each other with the utmost respect. This means on the forum, in the chat box, through texting and on PSN. We are all adults here and put downs or disrespecting of your fellow owners will not be tolerated going forward. Any instance of owner disrespect will be an automatic strike and could even result in your removal from the league if it is severe enough.

_Going forward we will have a new trade deadline. This deadline will be week 9 of the regular season. Once the league advances to week 10, no owner will be allowed to process or conduct any trades.

_I'm looking for suggestions on 4th down rules during playoff time. Should we leave it as is or loosen them up a bit during the playoffs? Reply here with your opinions.

_When FA Bidding closes, every team is allowed to fill out their rosters by signing players 70 overall or below. When I say fill out your roster I mean add the players that you need to play your game. For example, I only have 1 QB, and I will be signing another one who is rated 70 overall or below just in case Cam goes down with an injury.

_Please make sure you have room on your roster to sign your winning bids for FAs. If not they will fall back to free agency and you will have to bid on them during the next FA Bidding period (which will be at the advance to week 3)

_As soon as FA bidding is closed (approx 7pm est) we can kickoff season 4. Please note that from the time I hit the close button XFN randomly decides when to actually close it. The actual closing time is 5-20 random minutes after I hit close.

Admins and owners please feel free to add to this. Thanks.

I'd like to propose being allowed to go for it on 4th down inside the 45 yard line at any time if it's less than 10 yards to go. It's about a 60 yard field goal from there and most NFL coaches would allow the offense to stay on the field if it's 4th and 4-5-6 or so.

Maybe just limit it to once a game.

nice offseason again hitched, and thanks for all the work

official, thats funny I was just about to suggest the same thing.

4th down and short in "no mans land", on the 37, against the wind is a 54 yard fg you cant make, and a punt is so close, you see NFL teams go for it all the time, so I think its sim.

I would propose between the 35 and 45 yard line, 4 yards or less.

well i would like to propose 4th and 1 and less newhere inside the 40 regardless of score you should be able to go for it, unless ur up by 5 tds

it happens in the nfl all the time

I agree with the no man's land of say inside the 40 to the 35? A 52 yard fg is makeable but 58 is a only possible with cetain lockers.

the 4th down rules though might open up for less sim play. believe me im a browns fan and we punted from the 35-40 yard line in a ton of games last year. Makes it more sim i think punting then going every 4th down because you are losing by 1 point in the 1st or 2nd quarter of a game.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/fourthDownAttempts/position/defense

here are some SIM (real NFL stats) from last year

colts only attempted 6 4th downs last year for the whole season. The most was NO at 22 but average was around 14 for the year. And i image those were mainly in the 4th quarter when losing. Not because they were losing 7-6 in the 1st quarter and just out of FG range.

that's why we should limit it to once a game I think

Some damn good points by all. I like the once a game suggestion. The no mans land is also a good suggestion. I was only asking for playoff situation but these are all good. Let me think about it and please keep offering up your ideas.

I like the once per game in any situation type thing unless up by more then 14. however we keep the 4th quarter 4th down rules the same.

but i would like to say i had an instance in my wk 1 game in the 4th down 2pts but already in fg range with roulghly 20 seconds on clock on a 4th and inches where my gut told me that id be better off going for it then kicking the fg. Now as per our rules i guess technically it is allowe dbut more sim if i just kick the fg, but my gut said go for it so that i dont allow pop to get a possesion and get my win in that manner, turns out i was right cuz i kicked fg pops gets ball with roughly 15 seconds and hits a hail mary to put himself into game winning fg range.

I like the not going for it at all during the first half. With the modified rules on the 4th quarter. I know it leads to some situations where you want to go for it but the rules say you cant. However, i like to see it from the defensive standpoint where it is exciting to make the defensive stand and leave people 1 yard short of the 1st down for the punt.

The thing is the quarters are only 8 minutes. Sometimes you may fall behind big early because of uncontrollable things like fumbles. This will force you to play more aggressive including going for it on 4th downs because of time and likely remaining possessions. I think the rules are fine personally,there's enough plays to stop a fourth down attempt,just because you go for it doesn't mean it will be converted.

It is what it is though,whatever changes are made if any I'll adjust.

i also think you should be able to go then if you are winning. If you only up like 1 point and it's 4th and 1 you should have the option.

I feel like opening up the options on 4th down can work as a floodgate for people exploiting it and rationalizing it as sim.

i think we should increase the trade limit. trading is fun!

The no man's land thing is a pressing issue IMO.

My game today, 1st half, I have a 4th and 1 from my opponents 42.
Asked him what the rule was, he told me so I had to punt. Not being allowed to consider going for it felt wrong--as mentioned, these types of situations happen on Sundays and we frequently see coaches opt to go for it.

I saw a suggestion of 4th and 5 or less inside your opponents 45, and 4th and 1 inside the 40.

I say we compromise:

4th and 3 or less inside the opponents 40---limited to one use per half.
Obviously this wouldn't include being down 21 with 3 mins left etc, but I think it's reasonable enough to warrant consideration.

that's a good compromise.

I dont think coaches go for it as often as we are making out to be. The last stat i checked said that that teams punt 88% of the time on 4th down, a lot of it has to do with the risk of fan and media backlash in case the attempted conversion fails. The problem being that, since this is a video game, the natural fear that keeps a coach from being aggressive on 4th down cannot be simulated (we dont risk our employment and career with every game). I feel that if we start allowing that level of aggressiveness it would ruin the sim feel of it and the frustration of falling short on 3rd down (oh, i can just go for it on 4th down). I believe this would unbalance the game as well.

I understand that seeing 4th and 1 is frustrating, specially when you are so close to field goal range. But that frustration is part of the game.

Quote :

To answer this, we analyzed over 22,000 fourth-down plays from regular season NFL games. Our basic findings: teams rarely go for it. In fact, they went for it in just under 12% of the plays. They were more likely to go for it when they were trailing. Trailing teams were much more likely to go for it later rather than earlier in the game.

As observations about football, none of this is surprising. But as statements about decisions in business organizations, they are quite revealing. The finding that teams chose to punt the ball 88% of the time is significant because as several studies of NFL teams have indicated, purely from a risk-benefit viewpoint, teams should be going for it much more frequently. That they don't supports an important idea in organizational sociology that decisions in organizations are often rule-based actions.

http://bigcomputing.blogspot.com/2011/11/why-nfl-teams-punt-on-fourth-down.html

I agree with the sentiment that if it's over done it makes gameplay less sim and that's not a good thing.

I also don't think it's a good thing that the decision is made for us every time essentially. The numbers you mentioned I'd assume covers all 4th downs in football---I'd be very curious on what % of the time teams go for it under varying circumstances. I'd be shocked if in the no mans land scenarios teams werent going for at a higher rate.

It's tricky. Because while we should have the option to go for it, that option will have to be very clearly governed and ruled upon because it's a slippery slope.

My 1 time per half, inside the 40, only on 4th and < 3 was my little attempt at limiting it. In the end it may be easier to keep it as it. However, I don't believe that to be ideal, nor should it be impossible to create a solid rule on this.

Two things.

1. I need to know where exactly is no man's land.
2. Need some ideas for playoff 4th down situations.

Playoffs we see more teams take the 4th down risk and I'd like to simulate that.

hitch, against u when we played one game, i was up by 1 or 3,l i forgot exactly wat it was, and it was the 4th qtr, and i had a 4th and 1 on ur 3... i think i should have the choice to kick a fg and play defense, or go for the score and basically take you out of the game

wit a few min left in the game, to drive, and hold the ball as much as u can, and than kick a fg on a 4th and goal, or a 4th and 1 on ur 5 is devastating if u score and take the lead wit no time left. I think we should have that option, if i get the 4th down, ur basically done, and a lot of nfl teams do go for it in that position

From what I've read,at least from a playoff perspective...Revis has the best solution so far

Im slightly changing the proposal though:

Owners can go for it on 4th and < 3 inside the opponents 45.

This can be done ONCE a game, aside from the 4th quarter. (Shouldn't be hard to govern the use of this in 4th)

Once a game will make you really think if you wanna go for it....So use it on your 1st drive of the game at your own peril . Can't do it again until inside 3 minutes (or whatever) in the 4th.

Revis Platform gets my vote..

revischrist007 wrote:

Im slightly changing the proposal though:

Owners can go for it on 4th and < 3 inside the opponents 45.

This can be done ONCE a game, aside from the 4th quarter. (Shouldn't be hard to govern the use of this in 4th)

Once a game will make you really think if you wanna go for it....So use it on your 1st drive of the game at your own peril . Can't do it again until inside 3 minutes (or whatever) in the 4th.

So this along with the existing rules or just this, period? I like it, I just want to be clear about it.

I'll try to summarize it. There are a lot if possibilities to try to govern with one rule like this but here's my shot. I'm sorry if it's a little confusing ?

So in a nutshell, ONCE per game IF inside the opponent 45 with 3 yards or less to go.

Owners will have the opportunity to go for it on 4th down for a SECOND AND FINAL time in the 4th quarter in the following situations :
a) If losing at any time in the 4th quarter by 21 or more;
b) If ahead in the 4th quarter by ONE possession or less with less than 5 minutes remaining in regulation
c) If losing in the 4th quarter with less than 5 minutes remaining in regulation.


So you can go for it at most twice a game. However, you could only do it once through three quarters, and only do it again in the 4th quarter in the situations outlined. I guess you'd probably want to leave the OT part as is.

I like the Revis proposal except for the maximum of twice a game. To me that's too limiting if you're down in the 4th.

I vote more trades too.

yea its def too limiting in the 4th and 21 is huge lead for an 8 minute quarter so lets say i go into the 4th quarter down 21 and go for it on 4th early and score on that drive with say 6 minutes left i force a punt but now thers only 4 minutes left it makes sense if i get into another 4th down scenario that id have to go for it if i want any chance to win..i think we could do something like split the 4th quarter somewhat in half , id go with revis rule for once in the first 3 quarters with on 4th and less then 3, as per 4th quarter rules i think a situation like this might be best,

you can go for it on 4th down in the first 3 minutes of the 4th quarter only if your down by 7 or more and that is allowed only once in the first 3 minutes, in the final 5 minutes of the quarter you can go for it on 4th all you want if trailing. Now i knowdefensive advocates will say this sint fair to them but if your trailing in the 4th quarter the only way to do that is score so essentially ur backed into a corner and have to go for it, if u punt the ball away all your doing is basically gift rapping wins for you opponent.

However theres one 4th quarter 4th down issue thats bieng failed to be addressed and that is going for it on 4th down in the 4th quarter with a small lead, i believe Joey brought it up cuz he had a scenario against Hittched where he felt hed be better off going for it, and i had a scenario vs Pops similar to that. Any suggestions for a solution to that. I think a simple solution could be a 1 time thing with a lead of 3 or less anytime in the 4th quarter

Again, i feel like we are going down a slippery slope where we are looking for exceptions for the 4th rules whenever it seems convenient to win. I feel this will lead to a 'what if this', what if that', 'what if this and that' road. A clear and dry 4th down rule seems more convenient to me than a You cant go for it on 4th down rule with a bunch of exceptions, that opens up the can of worms.

I have had plenty of games on which i've lost in the final minute by giving the ball back to my opponent. I still support a limiting 4th down rule. Bottom line is, football is not a one dimensional game, you have offense and defense. You should be able to rely on both to win a game. Playing sim style football is hard enough to police in a game AI that can very easily be exploited with cheap 2-3 yard plays, we all know that. Opening up the opportunity for teams to go on 4th and short when it is not a go for it or lose situation (i dont mean a go for it and my chance of winning is reduced thing). My concern is for the sim aspect of the game and a tendency to lean towards the high flying high scoring arcade madden style. I know people dont like having to punt it sometimes (i dont) but i feel it is the most sim thing to do(even 4th and inches).

I lean toward agreeing with Simi. Thus, my proposal was intentionally limiting.

I feel like :
A) IRL teams going for it more than twice is game is highly highly unusual,
and
B) I'd think if we're going to go down this road, go cautiously. I'd rather have people lose because they couldn't go for it 4th more than twice, than have a team win by going for it on 4th down every drive in the 4th qtr.

Simi is also right on about all the possible 'if this....situations'

The rule I proposed earlier was as clear as I could be. As mentioned I'd considered all the possibilities but thought leaning toward a limiting rule made the most practical sense.

If anyone can create a simple rule that won't allow people going nuts in 4th down, have at it.

similyago wrote:

Again, i feel like we are going down a slippery slope where we are looking for exceptions for the 4th rules whenever it seems convenient to win. I feel this will lead to a 'what if this', what if that', 'what if this and that' road. A clear and dry 4th down rule seems more convenient to me than a You cant go for it on 4th down rule with a bunch of exceptions, that opens up the can of worms.

I have had plenty of games on which i've lost in the final minute by giving the ball back to my opponent. I still support a limiting 4th down rule. Bottom line is, football is not a one dimensional game, you have offense and defense. You should be able to rely on both to win a game. Playing sim style football is hard enough to police in a game AI that can very easily be exploited with cheap 2-3 yard plays, we all know that. Opening up the opportunity for teams to go on 4th and short when it is not a go for it or lose situation (i dont mean a go for it and my chance of winning is reduced thing). My concern is for the sim aspect of the game and a tendency to lean towards the high flying high scoring arcade madden style. I know people dont like having to punt it sometimes (i dont) but i feel it is the most sim thing to do(even 4th and inches).

I agree with Simil here. I think the current rules we have are enough, with these slight adjustments.

_Going for it on 4th down is allowed in any of the following situations,

14. 4th and anything inside the opponents 40 yard line (must be losing or tied) at any time in the game.

15. 4th and anything at any time in the game if down by 21 points or more in the 2nd half.

16. 4th and anything if in the 4th quarter and losing. - I feel this rule has a place because we see this all the time on Sundays

16-1 4th and anything in overtime if losing. If tied, the above rules are in effect.

16-2 4th and anything inside the opponents '45' yard line (must be losing or tied) at any time in the game, during the Playoffs.

how bout 4th and 1 inside the opponents 10 if ur winning by 3 in the 4th qtr

JoeyJ1203 wrote:

how bout 4th and 1 inside the opponents 10 if ur winning by 3 in the 4th qtr

I don't think I've ever seen a team not take the FG in real life.